"Super" charging the field
The Built Different podcast is back and this season we're headed to the field! To kick off the season, host Grant Hagen sits down with former superintendent and new co-host Adam Della Monica. In this episode the two share stories from the field. This season, we're traveling the country to meet the builders making incredible projects happen. Want to follow along? Subscribe now!
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for this season to get started as we are. This has just always been really fun.
I just wanted to say thank you for all the folks that have liked, engaged,
commented, shared, all the fun stuff that we've been posting out there just
kind of a little bit off season here is the year get started.
It's just super encouraging to see how much some of these episodes and content
and conversations that you guys have just been encouraged by. And so I just
wanted to start by saying thank you -- it's super fun.
To see all that and even more exciting is what we have on the horizon for this
season. We have just tried to brainstorm what ideas and how to make these
conversations more and more impactful.
And we have some really fun things we're going to try this season. I think
anytime you get into, you know, one season, two season, three -- being the
fourth season, we have a lot of things that we're going to try to put in front
of you guys this season.
And what that looks like is going to be more field-based. So if you kind of
recall back in season two, we really started to engage a lot of conversations
with just the tech person, call it VDC, call it technology manager, whatever
kind of fits that boat.
And then really last season was like, "Hey, how do we focus on some folks in
kind of that exec level? Like, how does the technology kind of persona or role
interface with some of the exec folks?"
As we were thinking about this season, we really thought, "Man, what could we
do that would just continue the momentum and the awesome conversations that we
've had?"
And our thought was, "Let's focus on the field. Let's get into the minds of
some of the folks that are out there using these tools every day, either in
positive ways or feeling overwhelmed by them."
I think just the idea here in the theme that you're going to see throughout
this season in season four is really just a field focus.
And with that, we were thinking, like, who is the best person to kind of engage
in some of those conversations and dialogue and kind of host some of those
things?
And really the idea came around another team member that we have, Adam. And so
I'm really excited to get to introduce you to him.
Adam is going to be one of the co-hosts for this season. And what's exciting
about it is, one, you'll get to hear from him in this kind of first episode of
the season.
And two, I think you're really going to be encouraged by how his background is
going to play into where and how these conversations go.
And so what I'm going to do is I'm actually going to bring in Adam and get to
really introduce you to him.
And really, this first episode is going to be about him and his background to
hopefully get you guys encouraged about some of the conversations that we're
going to have.
So Adam, man, really excited that you're here. I've been waiting to record this
for so long, one, because I've selfishly got to enjoy spending a lot of time
with you on the team here.
But two, just to even learn about your background, it's really cool anytime
that I think all the work that we've done in maybe different parts of our
career kind of get to be combined with other folks or being brought into
different efforts.
And so, man, just thank you for being open to co-hosting this season. It's
going to be super fun. And yeah, man, I hope you're as excited as I am.
We've been talking about it for the last couple of weeks. And this will be my
first foray into the podcasting world.
So looking forward to seeing how season four unfolds. Obviously, I've listened
to the first three seasons and caught up with a lot of the great conversations
that you guys, you and Brian, have had with a lot of the leaders in the
construction industry, innovation space.
There's tons and tons of value in a lot of those conversations. So excited to
add my spin to conversations this season.
Come on, the flavor from the field. But I mean, man, with that, I'm just going
to tee you up here for some things. One, I have definitely gotten to steam and
be a benefactor of your background and experience from the industry.
But one would love for you to share. I think as we were thinking about just how
we wanted to frame out the episodes for this season, it was like, "Hey, let's
get to intro Adam."
And like kind of talk about your background and kind of how that's played out
before joining the structure site team, which eventually came on to the drone
deploy team.
And yeah, I really just kind of want to start there. Like, give us a little
background of kind of your time and tenure out in the field, what your role was
, what you did, how, and we'll get into some, obviously, specifics behind that.
But yeah, I mean, let's just start with, hey, like, what were some of the
projects you got to work on and what were some of the roles that you had on
those jobs?
Yeah, for sure. Kind of just real basic background grew up around the
construction industry. My father's an architect built an awesome career there.
And so sort of entered my career choices with that kind of background and that
love of buildings and design in particular.
Went to college for construction management at Sacramento State, Northern
California. Stingers up, let's go. I'll go Hornets.
And through a number of different avenues at college, I ended up getting an
internship at Turner Construction in the Sacramento area.
When I was, yeah, my first year at Sac State. So over the course of my time
with Turner, I spent roughly just under 13 years there and got to work on a lot
of cool, really cool, see things, get to, you know, touch and influence a lot
of different projects.
Yeah, my first sort of my first role at Turner Construction actually as an
intern.
I got my foot in the door because I had, I was just barely dangerous enough
with a Revit model that I could spin it around and, you know, draw some walls,
add some doors, those sorts of things.
And one of the PMs that was involved at the Sac State CM program, he kind of
said, hey, you know, we're looking for interns in the pre-construction
department.
Do you want to do want to come on board? So jumped in there, kind of became the
one man VDC show in Turner Sacramento back in 2009 and got to get my hands
really dirty.
Not so much, you know, hands dirty, not so much boots dirty in that first, that
first role, but really learning a lot of the VDC tools that were, you know,
emerging at that point in time.
You know, we're talking 15, 16 years ago now, so there was a lot of new stuff
that was on the horizon. So first couple of years with Turner, I spent in the
office in the pre-construction department.
I was a resource to all of the projects that we had going in the Central Valley
, Northern California area, just trying to help those project teams leverage,
you know, the basic tools like Navisworks and Synchro and stuff that they were
wanting to leverage on their projects.
So I got from there, kind of, I told some executive leadership, I said, hey,
you know, I got into construction because I like building stuff and as much fun
as all the VDC innovation thing is, I do want to go to the field.
And so I got my first opportunity on some tiny little tiny little storefront
remodels for Kaiser, there were these little insurance offices that were about
six weeks turnaround time on two of them that they overlap by three weeks.
It was just a masterclass like first feet to the fire, Go be the superintendent
, the project manager and the engineer all at once in this very short, short
period of time.
And so that was a fun first little first little bit in the field.
From there, I got my first big job first big tea job and went out to the Stock
ton courthouse, spent spent about two and a half, two and a half years down
there, roughly.
And again, feet to the fire, Turner was trying out this kind of hybrid engineer
superintendent role back then. And so I was the engineer and superintendent for
all of the structural trades on that project.
So everything from, actually everything from earth moving, you know, major
excavation for the basement, piles, shoring, structural steel, metal deck, reb
ar, concrete, you name it, if it held that building up, it was, it was on my
plate. And so, yeah, just tons of shop drawing learning, tons of scheduling practices,
trying to get rushed up on.
And yeah, got to experience a really, really cool project that ended up kind of
shaping the skyline of Stockton, which close, oddly enough close enough to home
, rising from Lodi, Lodi, California.
So that was a good one too.
I can't help but notice the big tea, little tea, it was the little tea like a
small Turner jobs and then the big tea was like the big Turner job.
Yeah, so Turner has a self perform, I'm sorry not so professional projects
division SPD so it's it's a special projects divisions that generally like TI
projects, kind of smaller volume jobs a lot faster turnaround times on those.
Smaller crews, smaller, smaller staff, but you know, just a different type of
project.
And then, you know, big tea is kind of, you know, the mega jobs that everybody
sees on LinkedIn and on the news and stuff, you know, the stadiums and
hospitals and, and those sorts of things so.
Yeah, my little Kaiser thing falls under sort of the SPD type of flavor, and
then going to Stockton and the rest of my crew was a little bit more big Turner
Nice. It's interesting to hear you. I've heard your story of your background,
but maybe not in the context of like the VDC to the field side.
I think oftentimes it's pretty common to hear folks coming from well, I shouldn
't say common, but just it's something you hear more of maybe of like folks
coming from the field into the tech side and walk me through like your interest
And I think I made this note that was like, I came here to be a builder, like I
want to go out and build, but obviously you, you know, found some value in kind
of getting involved in the tech like, what was that like I mean was that like
well received of saying like, hey, I have this background but
I came here to build. Yeah, that's a good question and definitely something
that I don't know that I've even really fully fully thought about and kind of
like what the norm is and how you transition from one to the other but I guess
throughout my life like growing up like I've always been interested in tech and
interested in just, you know, the cool new thing when you gadgets and the new
new ways to do things.
I think I also have sort of an inherent kind of mentality or, or, I don't know,
way of life, if you will, just trying to be better and more efficient at the
jobs that I have.
And so if there's a tool out there that will help me, you know, kind of be a
little better at what it is I need to do every day that I'm going to try and
leverage it at least explore it, figure out what the benefits, you know, the
value is.
And so I applied that, I applied that to my role and construction to start with
in the form of learning some of these new, these new tools, right, and new
again we're talking about 2008 2009.
And these are not to yourself a little bit but yeah, yeah, at the time, you
know, like VDC was, I don't even know VDC was truly like a title back then like
it was like I was the BIM guy, right, like that was what my, my first boss
Steve Schultz at Turner the pre construction manager there.
And so, you know, before VDC really became a title, there were these tools that
, you know, most of the industry didn't really even know about, you know, some
of our project teams were like, you know, there was a lot of friction even in,
you know, me talking to some of those teams internally, and presenting to them,
you know, some of those newer tools and ways that they could potentially gain
efficiencies on their projects, visualize the data different way, you know,
just look at, look at building things differently.
And so that was, it was kind of a nice, you know, personal way of life mixed
with a professional opportunity.
And again, an opportunity exactly exactly what that was. There wasn't a whole
lot of people in my seat that had those skills at that point in time.
And so, you know, sit down hammer mountain and figure out how to apply it to
the field.
You'll notice that we're going to do this quite a bit throughout the season. I
thought that just a question that I just like popped up to my mind totally off
script here but like, what do you feel like in 2008 was the perception of the
field to some of these tech folks.
And then what do you feel like the perception was from the tech folks to the
field because like, it's interesting. I think obviously that perceptions
changed significantly and what is that quick math in my head 15 years right.
Like what would you say when you started that perception was like, or at least
your kind of perspective from it.
Yeah, that's a great question.
In sort of the perception of the field by me and more of the innovative role at
the innovation role at that point in time.
I really looked at the field as a massive opportunity, right, like that was the
arena in which a Turner or any other construction that company that's where
they make the money right like that's that is.
There's a saying in the industry feed the field, right, at least, you know, a
prominent saying a Turner when I was growing up was like feed the field
everything we do as an organization, whether it be operational, whether it be,
you know, back a house, you know, general administration, those sorts of things
It's all geared to feed the field, right. If we can finish jobs on time under
budget, we make money. We have more people. We win more jobs. We have a better
reputation. So feed the field.
Like that was it. So from my perspective, the tools that I was learning and the
tools that I was, you know, kind of getting more familiar with and figuring out
how to implement them in an operational perspective.
I looked at that as the field was the opportunity to try and put some of those
things out there and get those field folks to adopt and be better at their jobs
From the on the flip side, I think the perception of the innovation person, you
know, in my role for by the field.
You know, I think it's come a long way in that, you know, quick math 15 years.
But I think that it's very similar or still sort of an underlying feeling of,
you know, if I'm the superintendent on a project, my number one charge is get
this job built on time under budget efficiently safely.
And so, you know, what behind the years college intern comes to the job site
and says, Hey, I have a new way for you to do your job.
You know, there's generally going to be some resistance there and some, you
know, some, some apprehension possibly even.
But I like to think and, you know, more than just like to think I had some
really good relationships with superintendents, project managers, project
engineers, through that period of time where, you know, I got, I won a lot of
people over from thinking about things the way they had always built them.
And starting to think about new tools and new work, you know, new processes in
their workflows and how to inject some of that, that efficiency and some of
that innovation into their job.
So I would say overall successful during that period of time, but definitely,
you know, you know, the glass was half full for some and half empty for others
during that period of time.
And I think that that some of that still exists in the industry today.
You tease my next question, which we'll get to, I'm sure once we kind of dive
into some of our other topics, but yeah, it's interesting. I mean, you take a
snapshot of, I mean, 10 years in construction may seem like a long time, but it
's not very long.
And to think back in 2008, like what perceptions were of office to field and
field to office.
Yeah, man, we could camp out on that for a whole, you know, conversation itself
, but it is interesting. It's like, has that changed a lot?
Has that not changed a lot? And I think, I don't know, would you say that you
're, you are encouraged or discouraged of how much you've seen it change over
time?
I mean, obviously, you know, your role changed from, you know, being more
focused in the field and then coming into a technology role here on the
software side, but like from your perception, what do you see?
Like, do you see a positive change? You feel like, oh, man, I still think there
's a lot of room to grow.
Well, yeah, I definitely think that there's a ton of room to grow, right? But I
will couple that with, yeah, overall, massive positive change. I think that,
you know, again, we're talking about this period of 10 to 15 years and you look
at just the influence of
a perfect, a perfect tangible example is that when I first started, BIM
services were like an add on to a project, right? You had a budget for that.
You look at projects nowadays, the majority of, you know, kind of that, you
know, E on our list, if you will, of commercial construction, BIM services are
just a thing that happens, right? Because we've recognized as an industry, as a
general contracting
industry, we've recognized that that is by far, far and away, worth the amount
of time you're going to spend on it to make sure you can build the job more
efficiently, make sure you meet your schedule and that sort of thing.
So, you know, in most cases, and I'm sure that there's a lot of anomalies out
there, but like in most cases, that's just standard practice now for a lot of
the contractors that we're talking to.
So that's just one easy, tangible example of change over time that, you know,
has shifted in that positive direction, for sure.
Yeah, one thing we talked about, too, like even last season, like how much that
tangible is changed by just like teams and job titles. Like imagine, like, you
said, like, oh, the BIM kid, right? Like, back in '08, like, think of how much
time you're going to be able to change your schedule, like, I mean, think of how many, like, teams and careers and departments have
been made since 2008 and how much that has changed. And yeah, I mean, that's
fascinating to think about, too.
And that, for sure, could be another topic in itself. But yeah, I would throw
on top of that. Just to interject one more thing there, too, is, and, you know,
if any of my old Turner, my Turner exactly are listening to any of this.
You know, when I was a kid, right, again, that two years into that internship
and realizing that I had the keys to tools that would make the job in the field
better, that we weren't, like, vastly and widely training our people on, right?
These are new things that hadn't made any sort of that corporate training model
yet.
And so one of the things that I pitched at near the end of that internship and
kind of as I had gotten more familiar with my role was like, hey, why aren't we
cross training all of our, all of our field staff on some of these tools that
would make them better at their jobs, right?
Yeah, sure. We're training engineers and superintendents on P6. That's great.
But why aren't we training engineers and superintendents on Navisworks, for
instance?
It's like, let's empower them to jump into a model and be able to, you know,
spin it around, navigate, walk around the model and not get, you know, fully
lost and twisted out in space, making something that they're familiar with and
comfortable with so that it doesn't take a specialized, you know, intern Adam
to show up on the job to open the Navisworks model and get it into the hands of
the people who would benefit.
And, you know, put together this great PowerPoint slide that showed the career
development of me being the person training all those people. It was a funny
thing. So it's kind of a modeled sort of today's innovation leaders back in
2009.
Yeah, it's interesting too is like, I mean, not to camp too long in the 15 year
ago mentality, but like, I mean, I've had, it's weren't really a thing 15 years
ago, right? It's like, it's interesting how, you know, I feel like we've talked
about this maybe two seasons ago, season two of like, how much hardware and
software have to be in sync with each other for this to really like catch fire
and really like get developed well within, or I should say,
operationalized well within companies because it's like, yeah, you could have
some really amazing and powerful tools, but if the tool is like a laptop in a
field office that is like being used by a superintendent, it's like, yeah, but
that's, that's not where they're spending a majority of their day and they
should be or it could be, you know, out on the job and
yeah, just it's interesting to think and I'm sure we'll have these
conversations and I know we'll have these conversations with a lot of field
folks in this season of like, hey, what were the transformative hardware
solutions that came out in your career?
And hey, what were the like transformative software things that have come out
and I mean, we're definitely in that, you know, season now with all things AI
and all things, you know, intelligence and whatnot. But anyway, I'm teasing.
I'm teasing. Yeah, I had a front row seat to, to all shout out Tracy Young from
Plangrid. She went to Sac State and
yeah, we were participate on the same design build competition team back then
and had a front row seat to her saying we max our credit cards to buy a bunch
of iPads to give to contractors.
And that was the birth of Plangrid and so, you know, got to watch that sort of
meteoric rise to exactly your point. You know, it was just, that was a hardware
change and that was just a vehicle to give, you know, to take a workflow that
contractors were already, you know, obviously very entrenched in using drawings
and moving that from a plan table in a trailer to the hands of a superintendent
out in the field and just the efficiency that was, was there.
Pretty awesome, pretty awesome to watch. It's crazy to think I remember this is
going to date me a little bit, but I remember when the iPad got announced and
people being like, it's going to be a big phone, like it's just a big iPhone.
How are we? And then like the whole construction industry was like, this is
amazing. I can like, you know, actually multi touch this thing and not like
have to use a stylist anyway. It's just funny to think like how hardware really
does have to come in at the right.
Like, of course software is a huge component of it too, but I've used this
analogy that there's just like this unique dance like one can't get too far,
you know, in front of the other and the other can't get too far behind and
really when they intersect on their innovation paths like that's the key, you
know, moment of success that like hey, take advantage.
And then there's a unique eclipse, I guess, if we want to call it that of like
two things really coming together. Anyway, great things that we're teasing for
for throughout the season and conversations too. But yeah, I think to that
point and kind of going down the technology route like how have you seen it
change like obviously you, you got to see it on small jobs, bigger jobs, things
like that. But like, yeah, maybe maybe alluded to that a little bit too at just kind of
your perspective from being from the field like how much you have seen that
journey and come along in the time that you were out there.
Yeah, I mean we've already called out a couple of them right them being a
standard. That's a that's, you know, that's table stakes these days.
So, I think playing grid iPads moving out to the field I think to your point,
not just playing good but iPad in general with nowadays you have pretty much
every tool is is is built or formatted to, you know, be able to be used on
those iPads and, you know, I think the evolution of the safety vest to include
the back iPad note pocket on it.
You know, it's going to those hardware changes in the most in the most simplest
sense but yeah I think just there's an attitude shift as well I think from the
field right we're seeing tools that, you know, pro core for instance, having
everything you need for project management within that platform that was the last on my last
project we used we had implemented and started use pro core there.
You know so the changes, I guess maybe the obvious most obvious changes the
number of solutions that are out there, right the, you know, back in 2008 you
had a handful of of auto desk products that were, you know, were and a lot of
them are still very
important in what we do. But nowadays like I saw an old colleague I think pro
program break last year and he was still in construction industry innovation
role walking around looking at everything that was, you know, there to
be at his fingertips, it's a manual, I kind of don't envy you in this role
right now and having to pick a pony and you know and try and, you know,
implement it and institutionalize it at your organization because everything's
just changing so fast and there are so many solutions out there and so many
options that, you know, it poses a big challenge for those folks so I think
just to answer your question the changes that have come about
I mean, there's a plethora of things that are available to the industry now
that now it's a matter of filtering, you know, sorting through it and trying to
standardize on things and really empower the people in the field to use the
best tools.
And so I know this is going to come up many times in the conversations we have
had and will have in the season of just like the feed the field mentality like,
you feel like that's easier or harder with all the different like options that
are out there like, I think on one hand it can be like, oh man,
now I have so many things at my fingertips or, you know, a store essentially
like go through and kind of this app mentality of like, oh, there's an app for
this now for that like, you feel like the kind of plethora of options enhances
feed the field mentality or like makes it harder or like is still neutral like
what I love the term I mean I think that obviously like resonates with a lot of
people and should almost be like a motto for a lot of the folks that are
probably listening like hey it's not helping you feed the field like I would
really start to wonder the, you know, need of the investment behind it but
yeah just talk about how like how crowded it's gotten and is that helpful or
not from your perspective being in that field kind of role.
Yeah, from my perspective I think to your point feed the field it if you can.
If you understand that phrase, you know, at its core, the intent is to remove
as many roadblocks as possible for the operations team on the project so that
they can deliver that job as efficiently and successfully as possible.
There is a very easy, I guess, stumbling block in in that by introducing too
much stuff.
Right if every solution you find on the market is something you want to try and
you want to hand it to a project team that can pretty quickly become a
distraction.
Right it can become too much it can become overload. So I think that there is a
balance between value and you know experimentation right if I can use that word
loosely.
Trying to find and vet solutions that are really really valuable in the context
of a field application, I think is the most important thing today with that
plethora of options that are out there with with the availability of so many
things that, you know, every
tech company website you look at it's the it's the number one in the world it's
the best available in this. Yeah, the x y and z right we do it too.
So, you know, really trying to put put value on why you're implementing a piece
of technology or innovation is can is the biggest thing and just stay out of
the way of the builders right there are a lot of very, very smart, talented
superintendents engineers Q a QC people safety folks like those people are, you
know, working burning the candle both ends in a lot of cases to deliver a world
class building.
And you know that's that's the way I felt during my years in the field is, you
know, my number one goal every day is to make sure this project stays on track.
And, you know, my job as a superintendent during that period of time was to
remove as many roadblocks remove as many constraints as I could for the people
who are actually swinging hammers right that's a really important note in, you
know, 13 years at Turner construction never swung a hammer once.
Right, it's it's the people in the field that are that are actually that are
actually building those jobs.
Yeah, totally. It's funny hearing you say some of those things like these past
episodes and conversations like come up so vividly of, you know, hey, like, if
you're not like developing problem statements and really things that like are
identifying the needs here, like that may be a really good sign that it may not
be something you need or use
And I guess to that, and maybe I'm again taking a little bit of a right term
but like, would you, would you from a field perspective, like appreciate the
like questions and asking like, hey, like, what are your problem statements
that you're trying to solve?
Or would you almost like prefer kind of said technology role person be like,
hey, this is what I'm perceiving your problems or challenges are from the
position I'm in.
Is this true or not like how much of that problem statement like brainstorming
process. Do you think the field like wants to be involved with? Does that make
sense?
Yeah, it does. It's an interesting question. I think, you know, I think the
answer to that will vary from person to person for me personally.
And, you know, I was always kind of the champion persona for the tech solutions
that I was that I was interested in. Obviously my introduction to structure
site and, you know, ultimately leading me to working here was one of those was
one of those kind of scenarios.
But I think that there's definitely, there's definitely a time in place and one
thing that that should be stressed, I think, and, you know, I think a lot of
the people who are potentially listening to this may already understand this
but it's very difficult to
change course, right? Once that ship leaves the station, it leaves port, that
train leaves the station, which is the project starting, right? Once that once
you break, break ground on a project, it is in the best interest of the field
to have the tech stack figured out by that point, right?
It's really difficult to insert new technology and training, changing your
processes and workflows midstream. And so I think that there's a really good
opportunity for exactly that where talk to the builders, talk to the field
staff, those operation staff between projects, right?
The cool thing about the construction industry is it's very cyclical. We get to
go just nose to the grindstone all in on a project for 12 to 36 months roughly,
you know, kind of on average, I would guess.
And then you get a chance to reset, right? Once that project's done, you get to
go to the new one and it's the next one and it's a clean slate, right? This
next one's going to be the best project I ever built. That was always the, that
was always the the terms. So use that sort of downtime in between, which across an
organization, you're going to have generally a lot of those people, you know,
throughout the year, moving from job to job, pull them in for a few minutes,
right? Talk to them and be like, hey, check this out.
Is this something that you'd find interesting? While their minds are clear,
while they have that sort of lull in the action, when it's peak performance,
peak time on the schedule, it's really tough to try and solicit some of that
feedback.
So, yeah, you don't want to build a process and a building at the same time,
right? Like, that's tough. It's not easy to do. What's challenging in that too,
though, is like, I don't know. And we obviously have a lot of folks from the
software side and listen into this too.
And it's hard because I've seen it having been an end result of a customer and
also seeing it on this side a little bit too of like the, oh, but yeah, like,
hey, just try this or like, like trial or beta test or pilot, I think is the
word like, you know, and it's hard.
We talked about this again in some other episodes in past seasons of like, hey,
defining what a pilot process is like, and honestly extending that to like, hey
, are pilots something that you are open to doing during a project or hey, like,
start at the beginning.
It's just so fascinating because, yeah, I think you said it really well, like,
the best time to do it obviously is the is at the beginning of the job to not
overwhelm folks, but I also would like kind of counter to saying like, there's
some times that you just need a unique solution in the project that it may work
out, like, and I don't know success rates, right?
Like, let's call it 5050 of like something being successful halfway through a
project versus that being at the beginning, but yeah, like, it's funny what
innovation comes out of just true need and what innovation comes out of like
really true intentional planning of like, this is our goal.
This is what we want to do for the job and yeah, almost having a balance of
both.
But obviously to your point, like you don't want to be building those processes
like during the job, right?
And I think to add on to that too, I think that something that I found was very
successful during my time and something that I'm sure a lot of other people
have figured out already but my very last project or my last project while I
was working at Turner was the natural resources building
in Sacramento. I was responsible for the entire basic exterior skin of that
building. One system that we had as part of the exterior skin was, it really
wasn't even a system real building system when we got to it.
It was these really cool rammed earth like precast panels, if you will,
effectively had to create a building system out of this kind of material that
the architect wanted on that project.
One of the major constraints to that was the structural aspect of this. We're
going to make sure these panels don't fall off the building.
Well, okay, we have to design a frame for that. We have to design a bunch of
supplemental steel to get that in and hang them on the building.
And one of the things that I found absolutely critical to that was laser
scanning of existing supplemental steel that we had installed already.
And then a full blown like them coordination effort of exterior skin
connections to those pieces of steel that I could then move around on the back
of the panel so that when those panels showed up, they hung on the building and
we had no issues.
Had a superintendent and slash engineer during that period of time, not wearing
the true like innovation VDC cap. I knew that the tools were available to me.
I knew that the use case that I was looking for would work with what we had.
And it was a matter of me just asking and saying, Hey, I have this problem.
Can we use these tools to solve it? And the answer was yes, we managed to get
through it. And everything worked out, you know, without a hitch.
So that what the point there is, make sure I guess as an organization, what you
can do is just educate the staff educate the operations people on what is on
deck like what do we have what's in the toolbox.
And then empower them to think outside of the normal sort of quote unquote way
we've always done it.
And, Hey, maybe that, you know, that tool that we had that I heard about at the
last quarterly business meeting from some other superintendent or another
innovation guy. Maybe that works in this scenario. Let me make that phone call.
Right. And so just having that sort of mentality on a job site is super helpful
in these in these conversations.
Yeah, well said. I mean, again, just these episodes and conversations keep
coming to mind like there was a guest we had on, I think two seasons ago, that
was like, Hey, my desire to create almost like a Yelp or reviewed like Doc of
like, Hey, here's all the tools at our disposal.
Here's the use cases. Here's where like they had value. Here's where we like
tried them that didn't fit into its use case like, yeah, I mean, maybe it's not
as much more about like, Hey, defining the processes you go.
Like, Hey, really defining the tools you have at your disposal at the beginning
of this thing so that when those times present itself. Hey, you're not, you're
not basically doing the searching for the tool. You're more doing the like
searching for application of it in its best capacity of like, Hey, that we know
this is in the wheelhouse of what this intended use of this tool is.
We're going to use the hammer for the hammer. We're going to use a screwdriver
for the screwdriver. But yeah, at the end of the day, like you got to make sure
that you know what tools are in that toolbox.
And that is, I think where this kind of blend of like field and office do have
to like come together and be like, Hey, like, let's constantly evaluate our
toolbox. Like, what are the things that are working? What are not?
Do we have two tools that are doing the same thing that ultimately like is just
causing it to be more challenging or as their optimization in a tool? Like,
that's where I think at the end of jobs.
Like, that's the super exciting part is like almost like a retro of the project
, you know, technology stack. If you call it that and you know, I don't know how
that may be a phrase, but
I'm at that point. In fact, I was having a conversation with somebody today. It
's like, we don't really do the term retro was new to me coming to the tech side
of things.
You know, you do probably from your experience and, you know, after being part
of the product or here for a little while and like, you know, we plan something
, we build some stuff and we retro.
We figure out what we do well. What we do well. That doesn't happen in the
construction industry as much as I, at least from my perspective, like it never
really happened at the end of a job where we pulled all the people who worked
on that job back into a room for two, three hours and said, what do we screw up
What do we do really well? What do you want to do differently next time? Right.
And that could be applied not just to the tech stack side of things, but even
just the process of building relationships with owners and engineers architects
You know, how can we make this industry better by having those records?
It is that though. Like, is that a culture thing? Is that a timing thing? I
mean, because you hear about project teams that are like, I'm taking two weeks,
three weeks, four weeks off after this job because we just like sprinted over
the finish line.
Like, what is the meaning of the group?
Okay.
Yeah, I think it's timing. I mean, you know, the peak, you know, if you look at
your manpower, you can't show all of those curves right when they peak and then
they, you know, you run them out until the end of the job and then they start
to. They start to taper off during that taper period is when, you know, GCs are
trying to pull staff, right? It's like, yeah, okay, Adam, you're off this job.
No, you're going to go start the next one grant your office job a month later.
You're going to go start that next one. And so we tend to then splinter the
team towards the end as that job starts to taper down.
You know, and then, you know, then, then the, the, the age old question of like
, when is the project actually finished? Right? Is it when?
Is it when like the punch list is complete? Is it when you actually turn over
the building to the owner? Is it when you get final payment? Is it, you know,
like, when is it done?
So when is that sort of line to bring all those people who have you've, you've
now split off to the other jobs when you bring them back into a room? And so I
think that's probably the biggest hurdle.
I mean, in your opinion, like what, what is the most effective catalyst to
change that? Is that like the innovation person's role or the tech person's
role? Is it the like field team being very active?
Like, I don't want to ever see that thing again. Like, obviously the answer is
both, right? But like someone has to initiate it. Like, is there from your
opinion? Is there one over the other?
Uh, I guess, yeah, I didn't really thought about it. My opinion would be it's
probably in the best interest of the business as a whole. And so it's probably
a function of, of that kind of executive leadership.
You know, I would say that, you know, you have a PX that either oversees a
massive job or multiple smaller jobs. You know, I would even put on, on that
person's plate, that sort of retro, right? Leave the retro at the end of the
job.
Um, you know, because, because so much of what we learned during a construction
project could benefit, you know, the way that we practice scheduling at a
corporate level, the way that we practice pre construction estimating at a
corporate level, right?
So many of the findings of the job should be fed back to those auxiliary, um,
those auxiliary functions. So then again, in the interest of feeding the field
in the future, if we can disseminate our learnings, we set ourselves up for,
for success.
Um, you know, even even better on the next job.
I think we just found some questions that were for sure going to put in front
of people for sure. Yeah. I like. Yeah. I mean, it is tricky, right? I, it's so
easy to point the finger. It's so easy to be like, Oh, that's their
responsibility, right?
Or that's, you know, another team or department, but it really is. And that's
why I kind of almost asked at a like cultural level, right? Like everyone is
obviously keen to get feedback and, you know, there's parts of review cycles,
promotions, all that.
But like, yeah, at the same time, like, you know, these projects, gosh, such a
such a big miss is when just go to the next one and you don't either implement
and you know that, right? Like, that's just so tricky about this is that.
And hopefully, I mean, that's what we're trying to elevate here, right? Like,
that's what we're trying to do is, you know, share, share stories of when that
's worked and maybe share some horror stories of when it hasn't.
You kind of see that happening again and again on other jobs. But yeah, it's
interesting, man. It would be great. Like, great thoughts to like questions. I
'm sure we are going to ask some folks.
I think a good example too is, you know, just to, I guess, maybe one time in
this episode, just tie it back to kind of what we do now is, you know, my
experience before that last project, the natural resources job, I came off of
healthcare.
We built a new wing to a hospital in Oakland was a superintendent on that
project. And that was when I was approached by the very first wave, the
beginning of these platforms that were utilizing these 360 cameras.
And, you know, Philip Lorenzo, co-founder of, of "Struction Site" and knocked
on my trailer door and just said, "Hey, man, I'm going to give you this camera
and go take pictures." And you know, it was sort of a little bit of apprehens
ive.
I caught myself in my own sort of, "This is the way we do. We've always done it
ways." It's like, "Now I got to carve out extra time to go take pictures." But
I'll give it a shot, right? Being, being sort of that more forward-thinking
person.
When did it started to find myself and my team looking at those photos pretty
often, leveraging the content that we had generated on the project over the
course of, you know, those, that period of time.
And then by the time I finished that project and moved to the natural resources
job, I spoke to the PXPM on that project and said, "Hey, you need to carve out
money because I'm buying five of those cameras and we're going to buy "St
ruction Site" because we have to have that on this next job.
And from that, you know, then fast forward the next three and a half years on
that job, I now talk to people who I was on that project with, who are on their
next jobs, and they've brought "Struction Site" with them to the next job
because they saw the value that I saw.
And so I think just getting the ball rolling, right, it's that snowball effect
of exposing people to new tech, finding value, implementation on the next job,
right?
And so that's how we kind of further the industry as a whole, just through
positive use cases.
Yeah, and it's funny even hearing you like explain that. I go back to like what
we were talking about earlier, like this intersection of hardware and software.
Like, obviously people were trying to stitch together 360 photos from
individual photos and I think there was a tool called like "Photo Sphere" or "
Photo Simple" like that, like tried to do that.
But like, this period that we're in, I would say the line of hardware and
software are so close to each other, they're obviously not on top of each other
One's always going to kind of excel more than the other. But we are in an
extended season that hardware and software are very much in tune with each
other.
Man, I hate the kind of folks that are getting left behind in it. I'm just like
, "Hey, don't let your missed opportunities of doing retros and asking your team
, like what could have been helpful or what worked or didn't work,
like prevent you from getting the value out of these very simple tools." Very
simple. Like, we're not talking, you know, schedule, altering, you know,
processes of technology.
Like, "Hey, these are enhancing the things that you're doing." But yeah, the
season of hardware and software being as close as they are, I think just bodes
well for a lot of folks that, really their relationship with technology, maybe
that's what I'm like, kind of trying to get to,
is like, "Hey, this is a really exciting season." And obviously you can get
incredibly overwhelmed with all the software out there. Obviously, there's a
ton of hardware as well, maybe not as many.
But yeah, it's just interesting. It's interesting to kind of think of it in
that sense of like, when you talk about the ground swell and just kind of the
momentum that's behind it, it's like, that's hand to hand, right?
Or that's eye to eye, that's like, trailer to trailer. Like, you're going
around and saying like, "Hey, take these lessons that I learned on this job.
Don't make these same mistakes. Do these things different." And then that job
gets, you know, a one and a half X improvement of the things that you just
learned on the last one.
For sure. Yeah, that's an awesome perspective, awesome viewpoint on it. And I
think I'm going to confuse a lot of listeners this season with my pick the side
of the line, Adam, are you an innovation guy or are you a superintendent? What
are you, right?
And I'm going to follow that with, there's also the mentality that I think I
would caution a lot of people on. And it's like, there's always that if it ain
't broke, don't fix it too.
Right. Implementing something for the sake of implementing something isn't
always that valuable. Right? Yeah, you could force your way to a win in the
long term. But like, sometimes you just got to let it happen too.
Right? And so, you know, there's, there are staple processes and staple things
that I have to do as a superintendent or an engineer or project manager that
are just inherent to the building process. Those things have to get done every
day.
And yeah, maybe today isn't the right day for me to try something new. You know
, for the innovation folks, don't take that as a loss. Just take it as a let's
try it tomorrow. Right? And you know, find the right time to put that in place
or to experiment.
Yeah, I feel like an indirect theme of this, this like just conversation here
in your thoughts is like how important and critical timing is and what you can
control it and what you can't.
And don't like lose heart in the ways that you can't control it. But man, fully
take advantage when you can. And that's just something that obviously like your
background and story shows and lose a lot too. So, Adam, this has been super
fun. We're going to have a ton of fun this season. I can already envision the
conversations and hot takes and questions and folks for folks, but anything you
'd want to leave folks with of just some excitement that you're thinking about
and the conversations we're going to have with some field folks this season.
No, man, I'm, I don't think so. Nothing too overwhelming. I think maybe the
only thought is that, you know, I am, I'm real excited to be part of this now.
Again, having watched a lot of the last few seasons.
You know, the emphasis from me being cohost or one of the cohosts on this
season too is just been how outspoken and loud I've been internally.
You know, maybe a little look behind the curtain for everybody is that I've
been barking to product and marketing and everybody internally like, hey, we
need to be talking to more of the field users. And so, I guess I got what I
asked for. And they said, cool.
And now you're the face of this with Grant. So, tell them, let's do it. I'm
excited to get to get, again, get the boots dirty, go out on job sites, talk to
the people who are actually building the buildings and listen to them and
figure out what it is that they want.
What it is we can do better for them.
Yeah, totally. It's super fun. I think just to think through a lot of these
things. And yeah, we just hope that you guys as the listeners are encouraged by
what we're, you know, wanting to put in front of you and ultimately like that
there's takeaways.
There's like tangible things that you year in this that you're like, oh man, I
really think that that could be something that I can go back to my team or our
field staff and really share with them.
I mean, Adam and I are not here to just enjoy a good conversation. We are here
to put really smart people and really, I think great lessons learned as a part
of their journey in front of you guys, just to be able to enhance the things
that you're doing.
So, Adam, this is going to be fun, man. I'm really excited for the upcoming
season and want just appreciate you sharing your story, man. It's, it's
encouraging. I've always neglected to appreciate enough of how much experience
we have in this space of construction on our team.
Here at Dronopoy and man, it is, it is going to definitely show itself, not
only in the conversations that we're going to have, but hopefully the
improvements we're making in the product. So appreciate your time, man. It's
going to be a good time.
And also just appreciate you guys listening in. Be on the lookout for all the
build different downloads, the things that we've been doing to recap these
episodes and some other really fun things that we're going to be putting in
also throughout the season, which is kind of a site visit initiative and some
things that we hope to kind of further
show, like, hey, conversations don't just happen in these vacuums. We got to
get out and get our boots dirty and hear from the folks in the field too of
what they're seeing value. And so some fun stuff on the horizon with that too.
But Adam, really appreciate it, man.
I'm excited to have you on and look forward to seeing you more and having you
on throughout the season. Sounds great. Thanks, man. Awesome. We'll take care
team. We will see you on the next one and see you soon.
Make sure to subscribe to build different on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and
anywhere you listen to podcasts. Let's build this community together.
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